More appartment, and shopping malls, with a few white elephants thrown in.

Sun Tzu wrote:
More appartment, and shopping malls, with a few white elephants thrown in.

thought bolton didn't do "white Elephants" only multi coloured?

`Transform Bolton into a "modern 21st century town."` How on earth do they hope to transform a town from being a dreary delapidated dump into a modern 21st town`. This is from a council who thinks that spending £30,000 on three coloured elephants improves our image.God help us!!!!!

Fur coat and no knickers springs to mind. Its proper jobs we want.

Joe Neill wrote:
Fur coat and no knickers springs to mind. Its proper jobs we want.

nothing wrong with that!!!

TO COME OUT OF THE SHADOWS OF MANCHESTER - SO WHY ARE THESE PLANS THE EXACT CARBON BLUE PRINT PLANS THAT MANCHESTER HAVE BEEN USING FOR THE LAST 11 YEARS (SINCE THE IRA BOMB!!!).

THE PLAN IS GOING TO MAKE THE TOWN MORE LIKE MANCHESTER RATHER THAN BEING DIFFERENT. AND IF ALOT OF THESE COUNCILLORS HAVE THEIR WAY (WON'T MENTION NAME - NP!!!!) WE WILL BE PART OF MANCHESTER BECUASE BOLTON WILL BE BANKRUPT WITH THEIR IDIOTIC IDEAS THAT ACTUALLY PUSH PEOPLE AND BUSINESSES AWAY FROM THE TOWN (E.G. SO-CALLED PROPOSED ONE-WAY SYSTEM AROUND THE TOWN - LOOK AT LANCASTER BUSINESSES DISAPPEARING FASTER THAN A BOMB DROPPING ON THE TOWN, NUMBER OF INHABITANTS IN THE CITY REDUCING FASTER THAN ANY OTHER CITY IN THE COUNTRY - NEED I SAY MORE!!!).

THESE PLANS ARE THE DEATH NAIL FOR THE TOWN. GOD REST BOLTON AND ALL THOSE WHO LIVED THERE!!!!

Son of Bolton Reader wrote:
TO COME OUT OF THE SHADOWS OF MANCHESTER - SO WHY ARE THESE PLANS THE EXACT CARBON BLUE PRINT PLANS THAT MANCHESTER HAVE BEEN USING FOR THE LAST 11 YEARS (SINCE THE IRA BOMB!!!). THE PLAN IS GOING TO MAKE THE TOWN MORE LIKE MANCHESTER RATHER THAN BEING DIFFERENT. AND IF ALOT OF THESE COUNCILLORS HAVE THEIR WAY (WON'T MENTION NAME - NP!!!!) WE WILL BE PART OF MANCHESTER BECUASE BOLTON WILL BE BANKRUPT WITH THEIR IDIOTIC IDEAS THAT ACTUALLY PUSH PEOPLE AND BUSINESSES AWAY FROM THE TOWN (E.G. SO-CALLED PROPOSED ONE-WAY SYSTEM AROUND THE TOWN - LOOK AT LANCASTER BUSINESSES DISAPPEARING FASTER THAN A BOMB DROPPING ON THE TOWN, NUMBER OF INHABITANTS IN THE CITY REDUCING FASTER THAN ANY OTHER CITY IN THE COUNTRY - NEED I SAY MORE!!!). THESE PLANS ARE THE DEATH NAIL FOR THE TOWN. GOD REST BOLTON AND ALL THOSE WHO LIVED THERE!!!!

Stop shouting, you irrational prat.

To the armchair critics - come up with alternatives (preferably sensible modern ones - not the ususal sugestions that are a return to 1950s England with a tobacconist on every corner...)

Irrational - how?

Part(t) maybe, but at least I'm honest with that.

Go stuff that ring up your ring - you will never be the real Gandalf as he would never speak the way you do!!!!

loki wrote:
To the armchair critics - come up with alternatives (preferably sensible modern ones - not the ususal sugestions that are a return to 1950s England with a tobacconist on every corner...)

We need to start manufacturing again. It will not always be cheaper to leach off cheap foriegn labour, producing cheap foriegn goods.

I heard a case where Scotish Salmon is flown to China to be packed, and then flown back here. Might make financial sense to some greedy **** with no conscience, but it can't be right.

Home made (I don't mean it literally) produce, provides local jobs for our own people, cuts down on pollution, due to less transportation, and it's a more honest way of running a country.

You might think it's back to the 50s. I think it's back to reality.

Bolton was successful in the 1980's and 1990's becuase we were different from Manchester. Manchester got rid of its markets, had the toilet walled Arndale and very little entertainment in its centre whilst Bolton had a succesful transformation of the old Market Hall to a Market-hall combined with a shopping centre, had a very successful open market and believed in its inhabitants and wanted the town to work for them.

This plan is too very similar to Manchester's. What is going to be different between Bolton and Manchester - I can see nothing different.

The council should be looking at ways to be different, alternatives to what made Manchester successful. How about appealing to the very independent retailer (i.e. something similar to the old defunct Corn Market - now just another shopping mall), creating an entertainment zone which offers different types of entertainment from ice-skating to roller skating, waterplace, mock-rock climbing rather than just more bars, cinema and nightclubs). Bring back the Market Hall, make-over the open market and make it popular again (even if that means being very disriminative with who wants to trade there). Promote the flea market that happens near The Cattle Market pub. Move the Farmers market back to MOss Bank Park and again positively promote it, how baout merging some of the festival weeks to create one big one and bring under the umbrella of a re-invigorated Bolton Show Week.

Its about looking at things different and offering alternative attractions to Manchester. This Blue print thay have created is just a direct copy and offers no alternative. Being different does mean success and not failure!

Sun Tzu wrote:

loki wrote: To the armchair critics - come up with alternatives (preferably sensible modern ones - not the ususal sugestions that are a return to 1950s England with a tobacconist on every corner...)

We need to start manufacturing again. It will not always be cheaper to leach off cheap foriegn labour, producing cheap foriegn goods. I heard a case where Scotish Salmon is flown to China to be packed, and then flown back here. Might make financial sense to some greedy **** with no conscience, but it can't be right. Home made (I don't mean it literally) produce, provides local jobs for our own people, cuts down on pollution, due to less transportation, and it's a more honest way of running a country. You might think it's back to the 50s. I think it's back to reality.

How we going to start manufacturing again?.Successive govts.have privatised companies,which has not been successful,it was stated gb is 2nd most expensive country to buy off in the WORLD.Second only to norway.Look at it another way,shipbuilding gone,heavy general engineering gone,car ind. all in forein ownership steel ind. gone,no apprenticeships,were are the skills for future industry going to come from.Face up to it,it was a union jack with made in britain on it and it used to mean something but this country due to greedy govts.taxing to the hilt and selling off our assets is now nothing more than a supermarket country,mainly to china and other cheap asian and eastern blok countries.As regards manufacturing sorry its gone for ever.

Missed a bit out on last post ,should have read. i remember a tag on things,it was a union jack with made in britain on it and it used to mean something.

David

I agree with almost everything you say. Our goverments have sold us down the river, but at some point in the future we are going to have to face up to the fact that we can't simply go on borrowing to keep our economy afloat, and that the emerging economies of the world no longer need our services because they can do it cheaper for themselves. It happened with manufacturing and it will undoubtably happen with finances and other services.

I didn't say it would be easy to rebuild our manufacturing base, but it will need to be done because we will not be able to afford to buy goods from abroad when we have no economy of our own.

We have sold the family silverware and squandered the proceeds. hard times lay ahead, but then adversity very often brings out the best in people, and we could sure do with some better people than we have at present.

Sun Tzu wrote:

loki wrote: To the armchair critics - come up with alternatives (preferably sensible modern ones - not the ususal sugestions that are a return to 1950s England with a tobacconist on every corner...)

We need to start manufacturing again. It will not always be cheaper to leach off cheap foriegn labour, producing cheap foriegn goods. I heard a case where Scotish Salmon is flown to China to be packed, and then flown back here. Might make financial sense to some greedy **** with no conscience, but it can't be right. Home made (I don't mean it literally) produce, provides local jobs for our own people, cuts down on pollution, due to less transportation, and it's a more honest way of running a country. You might think it's back to the 50s. I think it's back to reality.

If that salmon story is true I'm a Chinaman

Taken from the Times on Line website.

The Sunday Times has found that home-grown products are being transported thousands of miles overseas for processing before being put on sale back in Britain.

Scottish prawns are being hand-shelled in China, Atlantic haddock caught off Scotland is being prepared in Poland and Welsh cockles are being sent to Holland to be put in jars before going on sale in Britain.

Ok it was prawns, but it's still crazy.

Sun Tzu wrote:
Taken from the Times on Line website.

The Sunday Times has found that home-grown products are being transported thousands of miles overseas for processing before being put on sale back in Britain. Scottish prawns are being hand-shelled in China, Atlantic haddock caught off Scotland is being prepared in Poland and Welsh cockles are being sent to Holland to be put in jars before going on sale in Britain.

Ok it was prawns, but it's still crazy.

Iagree with you ,i think our thoughts are mainly on the same track but i wonder were these stronger motivated people are going to come from.Looking through the partys we have at the moment i cant see any.They just seem to be a continuation of the weak, cap in hand to europe mp,s that have got us in the hole we are in.Regarding the prawns to britain via scotland,china,holla
nd and gb,what worries me is,how many other products is it happening with.

The reason so many goods are manufactured overseas are because costs, in particular labour costs, are much lower than they are over here. Get rid of the minimum wage and pay people £1 a hour and we might be more competitive, but who's going to want to take a pay cut of at least 80%?

It's tempting fate to call it the BIZ Zone.

That's processing, not packaging Sun. Same as any other industry outsourcing to cheap labour markets. That's free market economics for you. Where was the keyboard you're using manufactured?

JoePublic wrote:
The reason so many goods are manufactured overseas are because costs, in particular labour costs, are much lower than they are over here. Get rid of the minimum wage and pay people £1 a hour and we might be more competitive, but who's going to want to take a pay cut of at least 80%?

That is all nonsense. Fact the minimum wage in Holland is actually higher than it is in the UK - so how can Holland win packaging contracts from the UK? Easy, by having the foresight of good communications, good business heads and more importantly more people with specialised jobs. In uk we are becoming more and more of a pen pushing nations - sepecialised skills are no longer a high priority and as such the number of skilled people is very minimal therefore the only option is to use specialsed workers further afield.

Who is to blame....?The Government, the CBI whose only interest is to get as much profit as possible without any care or thought about the workforce (fact, they would rather see the abolition of all public holidays rather than introduce new ones) and most importantly greedy shareholders and greedy directors.

Son of Bolton Reader wrote:

JoePublic wrote: The reason so many goods are manufactured overseas are because costs, in particular labour costs, are much lower than they are over here. Get rid of the minimum wage and pay people £1 a hour and we might be more competitive, but who's going to want to take a pay cut of at least 80%?

That is all nonsense. Fact the minimum wage in Holland is actually higher than it is in the UK - so how can Holland win packaging contracts from the UK? Easy, by having the foresight of good communications, good business heads and more importantly more people with specialised jobs. In uk we are becoming more and more of a pen pushing nations - sepecialised skills are no longer a high priority and as such the number of skilled people is very minimal therefore the only option is to use specialsed workers further afield. Who is to blame....?The Government, the CBI whose only interest is to get as much profit as possible without any care or thought about the workforce (fact, they would rather see the abolition of all public holidays rather than introduce new ones) and most importantly greedy shareholders and greedy directors.

Spot on part of what i mentioned in an earlier post.Bring privatisation in and what do you get,quality out quantity in make profit at all costs and keep the greedy directors and shareholders happy,as you have stated.

Son Of Bolton Reader Wrote:
(i.e. something similar to the old defunct Corn Market - now just another shopping mall),

I used to love the old corn exchange. They moved it to the otherside of the Arndale. It's nowhere near as good. Aflecks Palace (not surehow its spelt) not sure if its still there but that isnt as good as it used to be. Happy Days!

Andrew wrote:
That's processing, not packaging Sun. Same as any other industry outsourcing to cheap labour markets. That's free market economics for you. Where was the keyboard you're using manufactured?

Whether it's processing or packaging makes no difference. The prawns are still being transported half way around the world in order that greedy people can make a fast buck from cheap, exploitative, labour.

For a guy who constantly pushes the case for the so-called disadvantaged of our country, you sure are selective about just who you think is worthy or not as the case may be.

Talk about taking hypocrisy to another level!

Er no, just pointing out the reality of global free market economics. Processing requires labour and employers will seek the cheapest practical option. That's a fact, not a nice one, but a fact. Personally I'd like to see a world free of economic exploitation, not just a UK suffering/benefiting because of outsourcing.

Where's was your keyboard made again? Who's the hypocrite?

Made in England, just like everything else in my house, including me.

Made in England, just like everything else in my house, including me.

Made in England, just like everything else in my house, including me.

Andrew, maybe keyboard is not the best example, but the point being made is that if I wanted to buy a keyboard (or one of many, many other items) that was made in UK, I can't, because we no longer do it.
Unless we begin to start making these things again, we are going to find ourselves unable to make our own and unable to import many things because we will have nothing to trade to the rest of the world.

Where do you buy from Sun Tzu i have tried to buy english goods but very hard to find.
M&S used to sell mostly english goods but they followed everyone else to china.
Always thought there was something about andrew english name for a chinaman.ah so.
joke.
See what you are all saying but i think we are to far down the line to change.
By the way there was nothing wrong with the corner shops.
At least you got a friendly face behind the counter not a automated zombie behind a till.
Land Of Hope And Glory.
Still think this should be the national anthem

Sun Tzu your keyboerd must be english made by a MP it keeps repeating itself itself itself jesus mine is doing it now.
Just a quick one.
What is the difference between Light and Hard.
You can go to sleep with a light on.

Sun Tzu wrote:
Made in England, just like everything else in my house, including me.

Bet it's not.

keithyt wrote:
Andrew, maybe keyboard is not the best example, but the point being made is that if I wanted to buy a keyboard (or one of many, many other items) that was made in UK, I can't, because we no longer do it. Unless we begin to start making these things again, we are going to find ourselves unable to make our own and unable to import many things because we will have nothing to trade to the rest of the world.

Who killed off British manufacturing industry?

Andrew wrote:

Sun Tzu wrote:
Made in England, just like everything else in my house, including me.

Bet it's not.

Of course it is, I made it myself from an old typewritter.

Andrew wrote:

keithyt wrote:
Andrew, maybe keyboard is not the best example, but the point being made is that if I wanted to buy a keyboard (or one of many, many other items) that was made in UK, I can't, because we no longer do it. Unless we begin to start making these things again, we are going to find ourselves unable to make our own and unable to import many things because we will have nothing to trade to the rest of the world.

Who killed off British manufacturing industry?

The witch Thatcher

Sun Tzu wrote:

Andrew wrote:

keithyt wrote: Andrew, maybe keyboard is not the best example, but the point being made is that if I wanted to buy a keyboard (or one of many, many other items) that was made in UK, I can't, because we no longer do it. Unless we begin to start making these things again, we are going to find ourselves unable to make our own and unable to import many things because we will have nothing to trade to the rest of the world.

Who killed off British manufacturing industry?

The witch Thatcher

Aye your right but nobody has even attempted to revive it.And they have had plenty time.No good to be still blaming the torys aftr all this time.

Thatcher killed, Blair buried it and Brown will probably build a car park on the cemetery.

Don't see any hope of a revival, but I do believe that future generations will have to rebuild what has been frittered away.

So you've got a Chinese made keyboard then Sun. Case rested.

You're right about Thatcher though.

So you've got a Chinese made keyboard then Sun. Case rested.

In name only.

What does that mean?